>> rose: welcome to our summer series where we bring you some of our favorite programs. tonight we take a look back at golf history with three legends, jack nicklaus, arnold palmer and gary player. >> the atmosphere that the gallery -- it's all -- it all builds up and you just have to understand it, enjoy it. i used to -- charlie, many times i'd come down near the end of a tournament and i'd get to the 14th or 15th hole and i'd be maybe ahead or even or something and i'd just stop and i'd go (sighs) take a couple of big breaths and look around and i see the people and i say "man, is this not fun?" >> rose: (laughs) >> is this why i'm here?

and it would energize me to go finish the tournament. i mean, to me, that's why i was there. i mean, to me, to finish at noon on sunday and finish 30th is something i have no desire to do. >> rose: right. >> but to come down thetre sch of a golf tournament and have a chance to win that golf tournament and be there to enjoy and have fun with those people and yourself and the competition with your fellow competitor, that's why we play the silly game. that's why we love it. >> rose: palmer, nicklaus and player, next.

captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> that's a four-iron and jack's got a much better shot. and jack is going to take advantage of it. that ball is going straight for the green. >> rose: jack nicklaus is widely regarded as the greatest golfer to ever play the game. he won a record 18 majors, he burst on to the scene in the 1950s with a mix of power and

finesse that would revolutionize golf. the great bobby jones famously remarked that nicklaus plays a game with which i am not familiar. nobody has been a masters champion more than nicklaus. in 1986 at age 46 he won his sixth green jacket, making him the oldest player to ever win a major. this year marks the 50th anniversary of his first win at the augusta national. last weekend, i visited him at his home in north palm beach, florida. you might have won the u.s. open, but you didn't. >> incidentally, that was the best thing that ever happened to me. >> rose: what? >> not winning. >> rose: why? >> well, i learned so many lessons. i got to play with hogan. i saw how to finish your tournament. i learned the mistakes that i made. if i won that tournament, i would have never found the mistakes i made which i never really repeated in my career. >> rose: like what kind of mistakes? >> oh, i mean, i had a -- i had a one-shot lead but i was leading after nine holes -- with nine holes to play.

at the end 1206 holes, with six holes to play i had a one-shot lead. i looked at the leader board, started worrying about hogan, palmer, kroell, cherry, souchak, those are the ones who were all four under and i was five under and i got nervous the next hole and i had a little -- i had a 12-foot put and ran it that far by the hole and i had a ball mark in my way and i didn't have the presence of mind to know that i could fix a ball mark i. knew it wasn't mine but you're not thinking clearly. so i three putted that, three put it had next green, missed a put like that at 16, missed an eight-footer at 17 and bogeyed 18 to lose the tournament. arnold won the tournament. that's fine. hogan, he self-destructed on 17 and 18. but, you know, all those things happened -- if i had won that tournament i'd have said "boy, i'm really good." and i would haven't learned the lessons, have had to learn how to do different things. and it was really one of the greatest things that happen misdemeanor n my career.

great experience playing with hogan. >> rose: why? >> he was unbelievable ball striker. he hit the previous 18 greens in regulation, hit the second -- every green in the second round and the first 34 holes i played with him the last day he hit every green in regulation. 52 greens in regulation. he was a machine. and i mean he couldn't have been nicer to play with. it was just -- he played just like i did. you know, he -- he gave you a few nice things to say and didn't really talk a lot, he talked a little bit. when it got to be his time to play golf it was all business. that's sort of what i was. i was always business when it was my turn to play and what i was trying to do and i was trying to be pleasant in between. hogan was pleasant in between. and it was just -- he was the kind of guy i enjoyed playing with. >> rose: as good a ball striker as there's ever been in golf? >> i think probably the best. i think trevino was awfully good, too. >> rose: ball strikers? pure ball strikers? >> uh-huh.

>> rose: so in '63 you go to the masters and people are asking this question: can he validate what he did at the u.s. open? is this guy -- how did you approach it? >> well, i played the masters in '59, '60, '61, '62 i felt like i was really in a position to want to play well in '62 because i came very close in '60 and '61 as an amateur and '62 i didn't play very well. i finished 14th and i said -- it wasn't a very good tournament for me and so, you know, going into '63 -- actually, '63 i didn't know what was going to happen because i hurt hi hip earlier in the year and i was in san francisco and i hit a second shot into the green in the pro-am at lucky international which was at harding park and i couldn't hardly walk by the time i got to the green. i played the next day, missed the cut.

i could hardly walk. i went to see dr. wagner, a 49er doctor and he injected my hip and he said i want you to come back on monday morning, i want to give you an injection before you go. i went to palm springs and i w the golf tournament but i couldn't play left to right, i couldn't hit into my hip. i had to play around it. i proceeded to have 25 injections in my hip during the next month, ten weeks. and so finally my hip got all right but during that period of time i couldn't swing into , i had to -- i learned how to playwright-to-left because i could play around my hip. so i went to augusta knowing that i never played right-to-left but i could because i had to play all spring. and i felt like i was going to play well. shot 74 the first round. not a good round, but i came back with 66. in the second round put in great position, good position to be right in what was going on and i

ended up finishing it all. >> rose: you love the precision of the game more than the power of the game? >> i do. always have, i think to me it's always -- it's more fun to play a really interesting little cut shot into a green or a high soft drawl or a little bump-and-run or something. i always thought those were fun shots. >> rose: you see the club as an extension of your hands? >> i see the club head as what i'm playing golf with. the golf club. and i like to feel and try to figure out how do i do because i visualize what i can do. i feel my swing. and if i can have the golf club in my hands in a way that i feel like i can perform the shot i want to perform, that's what i try to do. of course obviously it takes practice to do that. you learn how the do it and learn where your hands need to be and where the club needs to be and how you can pit it in. but that to me was the fun of the game. the fun of the game is being able to outsmart the course,

outsmart yourself and play within yourself and make sure the golf club is doing what you want it to do. >> rose: play within yourself so if you needed more power you had it? >> meaning you don't try to do something you shouldn't do. in other words, if you went to augusta and you're saying wow, you know, i'm in good position in the tournament here but, you know, i think i can get home. well, what are my chances of getting home? 5 out of 10? not very good odds. i don't like that. now if i hit it down about 20 yards further sitting with a two or three-iron in my hand and i'm saying 19 times out of 20 i'm going to put the ball on the green or right around it, that to me are the odds i want. i don't want 50-50. i want the 19 out of 20. and i'm going to try to make sure that that that 20th doesn't happen. that's playing within yourself. >> rose: it's also playing smart. most people believe that you hit

a one-iron better than anybody had ever hit a one-iron. >> and i love the one-iron. i just loved it. because of all the things i could do with it. and people say "why didn't you carry a four-wood instead of a one-iron?" well, to me four-wood was up in the air, there was too much to the elements. a one-iron i could always control the elements by hitting it down or hooking into it. i go back and i look at maybe the -- my three favorite shots that i ever hit were all one-iron shots. '67, u.s. open at pebble beach in '72 and the master's in '75 at 15. all one-iron shots and i said at that time, i said "ooh, was that fun!" i love -- when i hit a good shot i loved it. it was -- it got me charged up and excited. that was fun. >> rose: but what was it about you and golf that everybody said was going to a new era? >> well, you know, that would be pretty difficult for me to

answer. i was a 23-year-old kid. >> rose: right. >> in '63 and, you know, all i -- my whole goal was to go out and play the game i knew how to play, play it to the best of my ability and try to be the best at it that i could be. obviously the u.s. open fell to me in '62, the master's in '63 and i always tried to climb mountains. i always felt like, you know, here i am, there's a lot of other guys out there that are awfully good and all of a sudden i went "i must be better than i think i am." i won the next one and i said "gee, i guess i'm better. let's keep playing, keep trying to get better." that's what i did most of my career. so i never thought about that i was changing something. >> rose: how important was the balance in your life that you had barbara and you had family and a place that gave you a center? >> well, that to me was the most important thing. i mean, golf was never the most

important thing in my life. i mean, golf -- my family was always number one and my golf was always number two. and, you know, whatever -- and i think that it was so important to me. and i'm -- i've got five kids, i've got 22 grand kids and when you -- when you look back at it, you look back and you say "my kids all knew me, they all understood what i did and they were part of what i did" and today we still talk about football games that i went to or basketball games that i went to, i made an effort to do things and the kids -- you know, i don't bring it up, they bring it up because they loved it. and, you know, i just feel really sad for a lot of people who were so focused on one thing that they didn't live the best part of life. >> rose: so no great regrets that you did not win a grand slam. >> oh, i have regrets that i didn't win it, but i just didn't do it. >> rose: what ground do you remember the most in terms of you versus someone else?

is it watson? >> i don't know. i never really thought about me versus somebody else. >> rose: the duel in the sun? >> well, that probably is -- probably the one round -- one tournament that i would probably -- i would probably remember more of the shots than any of the other ones. what i lost -- now, in that last round i can remember three or four shots, tournaments i won i can probably remember most of them. ones i lose i usually get them out of my mind and forget about them. but that was a good one. tom played great and i played very well, too. i missed -- i made the one mistake, i missed about a five-footer at 17 and that cost me the tournament. but, you know, it's the way it goes. >> rose: tra vino once said about you that you play badly better than anybody else. that you can play badly for you and still shoot a 68. >> well, that's the secret to playing golf is to learn how to play -- how to score well playing badly. and i played -- i mean, i played

poorly many, many, many times and i walked off the golf course inside 67 or 68 on my score card but i managed my game. that's understanding who i was and what i could do and playing within myself and if i'm -- one thing i always did on the golf course, charlie, is i always try to correct myself. if i was not playing well, i didn't care if it was the last round of the u.s. open and i didn't like what i was doing i'd make the change in the middle of the round. now, i would play conservatively for a shot or two while i was working on it. but i knew the way i was playing i wasn't going to win so i needed to change and i needed to do it right then. so i did it! and a lot of those tournaments i won. >> rose: how painful was it to realize you couldn't play it at the level you wanted to play it? >> well, you know, it's -- certain time in life that's going to happen. and fortunately i had a balanced life. >> rose: exactly. >> and if i hadn't had a balanced life it would have been tough for me. but it didn't bother me. when i knew that i'd lost my

vehicle to my competition -- competition is what i loved. golf just happened to be the vehicle to it. and so if -- and i love playing golf, obviously. but, you know, when i saw my skills eroding and i knew that, you know, i've got five kids, i've got five grand kids, i've got 22 great grand kids, i've got the ability to go -- i mean, i'm -- barbara, i didn't go today because you were coming. i missed a middle school volleyball game and a high school volleyball game. >> rose: you get joy out of that? >> i love doing it! do i get joy out of it? absolutely! i love watching my grand kids play. >> rose: somebody once asked you how much credit did barbara deserve for the 18 majors and you said maybe 15 of them. >> that would be a good number. >> rose: (laughs) >> i want to give myself some credit. (laughs) barbara was fantastic. i mean, the beauty about barbara is that barbara knew what she was taking on well, she didn't know it exactly. she didn't know i was going gole

knew i was an athlete and when we got married and i started playing golf she automatically, as smart as she is, and she's smart as a whip, she knew her life had to be second to mine otherwise i could never be successful. so she never badgered me about wanting to do this or do that or do this. we took our time off, sure, but why don't we go do this? that was fine. but never while i was playing. never -- always let me do what i had to do. she raised the kids. she always made sure that -- she'd get on an airplane aftertn friday and she'd travel to california with three kids, couple of them in she'd get off the airplane and watch saturday and sunday and then fly back with me. i mean, you know, i mean, how many women do that? she was fantastic. >> rose: arnold palmer. >> arnold palmer was, you know, a great competitor. i mean, arnold came along at a time when we needed somebody in the game to take ahold and he

grabbed the imagination of the public, the television was coming along. arnold's out there, hitches up his pants and goes and wins the masters and the u.s. open in the 1960 after winning the masters in' 58. around played a lot like they did. he had his shirt out, had a cigarette hanging out of his mouth, he drove it off in the trees and he played this slicer draw up around the trees. arnold was -- i mean, i was a big arnold palmer fan, too. around's ten years older than i am so i watched arnold play a lot of golf and i love watching arnold play. you love watching the guy do those things. and then i got the chance to play with him. i was 18 years old first time i played with arnold. but, you know -- around was great for the game. arnold's career as a major championship golfer didn't last a long time. >> rose: five or six years. >> '68 through '64.

didn't last a long time but he was very good at that point in time. that's when arnold really putted well. he really putted well. and arnold -- the type of putter that arnold was was the type of putter that probably wasn't going to last. because arnold was a guy who did not fear a four-foot put coming back. and so he's ramming that ball up the hole and ramming the ball up the hole and he's putting this and i'm going to tell you, if you keep putting these all day long they're going to get to you. and, you know, eventually that's probably -- probably -- i can't say positively but it's arnold probably got to arnold because he stopped making the four footers coming back then he stopped getting aggressive going for the first put and soon he had to change the whole way he putted and that wasn't arnold palmer. >> rose: someone like s *ef sr *eu said every golfer who played after him should have given arnold palmer 25% of their earnings because he changed the game and then you came along and the rivalry between the two of you-- as short as it was-- made

golf what it became. >> well, i agree with sevi's comment on that. everybody owes arnold a debt of gratitude for what he he just happened to be the right guy in the right place. it could have been anybody but it happened to be arnold palmer. he handled it well. >> rose: how would you characterize the friendship? >> i would say very close. >> rose: that's what he said about you. >> we were very close. i love arnold like a brother. he's -- he's -- we were great competitors. we -- i mean, arnold -- when i was 22 years old starting on the tour, arnold would fly, pick me up and we'd go play exhibitions all over the country. we did that a lot. and, you know, we played the team championships together. we played ryder cup together. we played canada cup now world cup together. we played -- our wives were great friends. we traveled all over the place. had a great time. and, you know, -- and one of us

would beat the other one, we'd finish the day, shake hands, walk away and say "what are you doing for dinner? " and that's neat. and that's the kind of friendship we had. we had a period where we sort of split a little bit but that was the time when arnold went to the senior tour and i was on the regular tour and we had ten years where we didn't play a lot together. once i got to be a senior then he played a lot again and our friendship got closer because we were both after the same goals again and playing together. but it's -- now, arnold is -- i'm very grateful to what arnold did for the game and what he did for me. >> rose: you don't have any regrets about this extraordinary game you played and, as you talk about the players, what's amazing to me is what makes golf so great great: it is there is o perfect way to hit the ball. >> everybody does it differently. >> rose: everybody does it differently. >> exactly. >> rose: designing golf courses is your passion today. the land speaks to you.

what does it say to you? >> some land says "ugh." >> rose: (laughs) >> and some land says "wow." to me, though, my job as a designer is to be able to take any piece of ground and if it's an "ugh" piece of ground i have to turn around and make it a "wow." that's the creativity that i've got to display and put it on that piece of property. if it's a wow piece of property then it's my job to use that piece of property and not screw it up and try to figure out how do i work best to put golf in there so that i don't mess the land up but i also bring the best in golf in it. >> se: because you want to take the best of it and not damage it and let it speak to you and use it so that . >> absolutely. >> rose: ...it takes you. >> there were a couple golf courses that i moved virtually zero dirt. and i think they turned out beautifully. two, for example, is probably dismal river in nebraska.

we moved 5,000 yards of dirt and the only 5,000 we moved was to take a little hill off, it was halfway to a green on a par 3. so the golf course itself we didn't move one yard of dirt to design the golf course. we found the golf course. another was prong horn out in bend, oregon. and that was a piece of property that it was just absolutely gorgeous. it was sort of lava rock outcroppings and everything else and i think we moved maybe 15,000 yards of dirt and it was all a lake! >> rose: china. you're big in china there. >> yup. >> rose: you're building more courses in china than anywhere, i guess. >> yup. china is the up-and-coming place in the world today for the game of golf. the chinese have learned that golf is a game that they can do business, they can have fun, they can -- it's a game that they can play with -- like we do, a scratch can play with a 25 and still enjoy the day. you know, they're starting to

learn that and they like -- they love the american way. they love what we do. and i've been going to china for 25 years and i love going over there. >> rose: is it just china or is it other parts of asia as well where golf is exploding? >> golf is exploding a lot in china. vietnam has become -- >> rose: japan doesn't have the land. >> japan still plays a lot of golf but they're pretty mature as a golfing nation. korea is building a lot of golf courses. but i think china is the big place because the population base in china -- india wants to do it, too. but india doesn't have the land. india's about -- i'm guessing about 40% of the landmass but about the same population. and they're really -- to find land in india is tough. which brings me to what -- how we design courses in india. i mean, it's kind of interesting because people come to us with 30 acres, 60 acres, 80 acres fo

their golf course. and i say well, you know, you need 150 acres for a golf course. and i said to me that's wrong. to me what you do is you say, okay, if you've got 50 acres then what we need to do is design a golf course where you have 50 acres but we need to design a golf ball for 50 acres. >> rose: oh! so you change the golf ball? >> i would change the golf ball. to me you ought to be able to play the game and you ought to be able to play a golf ball -- golf -- we've done it backwards forever. we've always done it because of what the golf ball does. to me it should be what the land is and then you fit a golf ball to -- the golf ball is cheap and very inexpensive. >> rose: they changed them a number of years ago so it went from something to something and suddenly you could hit it much further. >> rose: you could change the ball short, long, whatever you want to change it inexpensively. i don't want to change championship golf. championship golf is great. but i'm talking about people learning and playing and getting involved in the game of golf. arnold's got a four-wood and

he's about 240 yards away. palmer cranks up and hits a good shot! right down the fairway and will leave himself a wedge shot to the green. >> rose: he is a legend who came out of the hills of pennsylvania with his father's hard-driving lessons deep in his soul. he had the strength of a linebacker and the magtism of a movie star. all of that, and he could hit a golf ball a mile and then roll it into a small hole with a touch of a master. he won four masters, one u.s. open, two british opens and 62 p.g.a. tour events. but never, never the p.g.a., although he came close coming in second three times. he was once chosen athlete of the decade not just in his sport, in all sports. golf has never been the same. it is bigger, better, and more popular in every dimension. he changed the game. everyone that followed is indebted to him. no one has had an army like arnie's army. no one has been so courted by presidents from eisenhower to

obama. no one has had so much respect from his peers. he and jack nicklaus defined great rivalry like magic johnson and larry bird, like john mcenroe and bjorn borg like duke and north carolina. when jack kennedy was in power, arnold palmer was winning everything. he was the best. so good that the president wanted arnie to look at his swing and come play a round. arnold palmer's a pilot and a hugely successful businessman. he and the late mark mccormack showed us what endorsements were all about. he was most of all a competitor and a gentleman and he still is as he approaches his 82nd birthday. we visited his home in pennsylvania. he still lives there. and also in florida with his second wife during the winter. right across from the golf course his father helped build. nearby is an office with enough awards to fill a museum. we began with a tour of so many

memories and then a conversation about so many experiences. this is a norman rockwell. >> well, i'll tell you a little more about that. that was done a number of years ago. >> rose: yeah. >> well, obviously. >> rose: when i first saw it you said "do i recognize this guy?" >> well, i wasn't sure everybody would remember me. >> rose: norman rockwell painted your picture. >> yup. >> rose: not bad. not bad. >> this is the number of times i've been on "sports illustrated." >> rose: you and sam? >> yup. we played in the world cup a couple times together and we won both times we played. >> rose: you and jack? >> yup. same thing. >> rose: my name and yours, a unique concept of golf, first of a five-part series how to do it your way. sportsman of the year. >> that's "sports illustrated." there's billy caspar. that's one we talk about every once in a while. >> rose: the toughest one -- it's the toughest one to win or

the masters? >well, you won more masters. >> yeah, of course, i hung out at the masters. i loved it. >> rose: that's your favorite? >> it had to be. you can't ignore the open. it's a -- it's still the -- >> rose: because it is of america. >> oh, that's one. that's it. >> rose: the american championship. >> one championship. >> rose: this is when you turned 40. this was 40 years ago. >> yup. >> rose: 40 years ago. see how much you've changed? (laughter) >> thanks! >> rose: this is you and the famous winnie. >> yup. >> rose: again. that's 1967. there you are. let's look at that swing. >> rose: there's you and jack and gary. >> yup. >> rose: u.s. open. you and jack again. "golf's kings must be selfish."

>> (laughs). >> rose: do you think you have to be selfish? >> well, i don't know about that. i don't think he's selfish and i don't think i am. >> rose: so what's this? >> those are my buddies. that's the blue angels. >> rose: tell me about flying for you. >> oh, i love it. >> rose: it's a second stphags. >> yup. i -- you know, i started by being scared. i was -- when i was an amateur i played a couple tournaments and i had to fly and i got into weather and stuff and it scared me and i decided that will not work. i had to learn to fly. i had to find out what airplanes and air nautical engineering and what it was all about. >> rose: you've stopped flying now. >> i just -- i still have my license and the only thing that keeps me from flying is going to recurrent training which i haven't done. if i wanted to fly again, i'd have to go back. >> rose: your license lapses if you don't go back.

>> well, in the airplane i'm flying. >> rose: but did you fly all those famous jets you had? the citation 10 and the other jets? >> i'm going to show you them before we finish this tour. >> rose: so this is your office. >> yes, sir. >> rose: pictures of family? >> family, everything. >> rose: there's your dad deak. >> yup. >> rose: his given name was deacon? >> milford jerome. now you know why he's called "deak." it's easier. (laughs). >> rose: exactly. there's the guy. >> yup. yup. and he was a great guy, he was a strong dude, and not a real big guy but very strong. >> rose: but by the time after the amateur and by the time you began to be who you were and are he fully appreciated it. >> yeah. it was great. he was great. this is my first tournament win right here. the canadian open. >> rose: that was in what?

what year? >> 1955. >> rose: three years away from when you started really killing it. >> then i'm now, as you know, approaching 82 and i've never shot four rounds in an official tournament lower than that. >> rose: 265 for four rounds. >> right. >> wow. 64, 67, 64, 70. >> pretty good. >> rose: you'd think if you were today playing today and it's back with the same age and skills that placed in '68 to '62 when you won your most number of major tournaments but when you won all your major grand slams, if you were playing today would you be number one? >> (laughs) i can't answer that! >> rose: but you had the will

to win. clubs are different. you'd be stronger. you'd like to give it a shot, wouldn't you? >> you're damn right! (laughter) i'd like to give it a go. well, wake forest. i've spoken twice at commencement there. >> rose: yeah. >> that's -- there's the picture of the school in winston-salem. pebble beach which i'm a partner in. this that's the hole i drove at cherry hill. the first hole. >> rose: when you actually reach that green, what were you -- you were so infused by the fact of what it said to you. >> oh, i was -- well, the determination and the things that we talked about, they were -- >> rose: foremost in your mind? >> all over. >> rose: everybody believed that if you had wanted to be you could have been governor of pennsylvania. did you think about it?

>> well, i had no choice. you know, people pushed for me. tom ridge is one of my good friends. >> rose: the future governor. >> yup. and so that was something that i wasn't a politician, though. >> rose: did you -- but you're also an american and a citizen. >> i love it. i love it. >> rose: but you just didn't want to do it? >> i didn't want to spend -- i wanted to play golf. >> rose: and you don't have to be in politics to make a contribution to the country. >> (laughs) these are all commencements i speak at at various universities around the country. this is one that i just got last summer that i'm very pleased about and that's st. andrews. >> rose: oh, indeed! >> my degree from st. andrews. well, come on, we'll show you some more!

>> rose: so tell me what i'm going to see here because this is legendary where you come here and hide and -- >> that's it, i love it. i come in here and work on golf clubs. a lot of people say i destroy more than i build. >> rose: are you convinced that what you do in here to a club fits it better to your swing? >> i always said that if i had the perfect club i should play the perfect game. >> rose: because you had a perfect club. >> that's what i'm trying to achieve here. >> rose: and you grind and build and get the parts sent into you. >> oh, i can do anything. i put them together, take them apart. most people say i just -- i'm very good at taking them apart. >> rose: (laughs) >> what kind of club do you play with today? >> rosetoday. >> callow way! >> rose: of course you do! let me talk to you about president eisenhower.

your 37th birthday he shows up at the front door of your house. >> yes, sir. >> rose: he's come with his wife to pay tribute to your birthday. this was the president you've had the deepest relationship with? >> oh, yes. i played golf with him the day after i won the masters in 1958 at his request. we became ever lasting friends. i was with him the day before he died at walter reed. and that's very familiar because they're closing walter reed. we just became very close friends and we played golf together, we played heart exhibitions, we did all that kind of stuff. and then the doctors told him that he really should not play golf anymore. so he used to call. he'd spend his winters in palm springs and he'd call me and he'd say "arnie, what are you doing?" i'd say "i'm going to go play

golf, i think." he says "oh, well, if you get time, stop at the house and we'll have a beer." well, i wouldn't play golf, i'd go over and sit with him and we'd talk and just talk about golf and business and the military and the whole thing, the country. >> rose: his passion for golf also helped make it popular. >> oh, you can say that in spades. he was -- >> rose: then there was j.f.k. >> uh-huh. >> rose: who also sought you out. (laughs) >> yeah. >> rose: he wanted you to look at his swing. >> right! >> rose: because he was a guy who loved winners. >> he -- and he was a good golfer. >> rose: when you saw his swing you said -- he's supposed to have played better and had a more fluid swing than any of the presidents. >> right. >> rose: and you said that you could have worked with him. >> it never happened. >> rose: why didn't it happen?

>> well, actually, i was on my way to palm beach to play -- >> rose: this was '63. >> it was early. >> rose: was it '63? >> well, it was -- yes, it was '63. >> rose: and he died in november of '63. >> and we were going to play some golf and the white house called me and said "arnie, forget it." and i said "why? i want to go do it! " and they said "well, he hurt his back and he's going to take some time off, i don't think he's going to play golf for a while." and that was the end of it. >.>> rose: so this is the famous shop. >> this is the shop. >> rose: this is the place where dr. arnold palmer esquire doctor of laws makes them and breaks them. no house calls. >> (laughs) >> rose: this way? >> yup, we're going to go right here back to the right now. >> rose: you've always had a very good relationship with the press. >> i enjoy the press. i understand their business.

and doc has helped me with that. but the guys from the press were guys that, you know, i could get with. i could talk to them and -- >> rose: part of what made arnie's army so famous, too, was this there was a sense that you were this big brawny guy, this guy who could, you know, play to win, but there was a sense that you were of them. >> buddies. >> rose: buddies. >> that's the best way to put it. >> rose: arnie was there buddy? >> we'd have a beer together. >> rose: oh, my god. look at that! these are big time medals. >> that's the presidential medal of freedom from the united states of america. >> rose: is the highest award that the united states can give to a civilian. >> right. >> rose: this is the one from portugal. highest civilian award. i built a golf course there and the president and i became friends. >> rose: played a round or two? >> this built is the hickock

belt. in 1960 i won that for the professional athlete of the year. >> rose: you also won it for the professional athlete of the decade. >> yes, sir. yes, sir. and that's what the this relates to. >> rose: this is the picture -- it looks like president bush giving you the presidential medal of freedom. >> right. >> rose: that's a great honor, isn't it? >> yes, it is. >> rose: and what's this? >> that's the national amateur. >> rose: so that's '54? >> yup. >> rose: that stands pretty high up in your -- >> oh, that's major. well, we go over here and we'll wind it up. charlie, this is my presidential corner. this is the things that happen with my various presidents that i was associated with and spent some time with. >> rose: let's just talk about them. first over there there's richard nixon. did he play golf? >> yeah, he did. yup.

>> rose: gerald ford is here. good athlete. >> oh, yeah. >> rose: played football. >> and he was a great guy. >> rose: he loved golf. >> you can tell by the laugh. this is a conference that nixon called of all of his friends to talk about how to negotiate the war. >> rose: you were considered among a friend. >> kissinger, the whole ground. >> rose: how to negotiate the end of the vietnam war? >> yeah. >> rose: wow! this is george bush 41. >> he's a great guy. >> rose: but he played fast golf. >> very. >> rose: her is ronald reagan. >> these are are like white house dinners. >> rose: here again with the bushes. here again with -- who's the lady in white? >> oh, she happens to be the queen. (laughter). >> rose: and so here we go with some trophies. >> various ryder cup. >> rose: what is the ryder

cup. >> it's a great international competition. rose: there's more enthusiasm for it than -- >> well, i hope so. i've always been a big thinker that the more international competition we can create through sports the better relationships we'll have with countries. >> rose: the more common ground we can find. >> exactly! >> rose: the better off we'll be when push comes to shove. >> that's right. that's the name of the game. >> rose: so here you are with bill clinton. clinton here, clinton here. now he loves golf. >> he's a great guy! whatever your politics are. >> rose: what's his golf. >> well, the ball just didn't have a zip code on it. (laughs). >> rose: wherever he was driving the ball, it wasn't necessarily the same place. (laughter) >> this is a letter -- he and i were playing golf one day and you can see the date, it's '65.

>> rose: i can read it? it's d.d.e., dwight david eisenhower, gettysburg, august 14, 1965. "dear arnie, enclosed is payment for my debt. and never was there one more reluctantly paid. also attachd is a picture cut from the philadelphia enchoirer that indicates dejection. please remember a couple of accidents will not be important a year from now. you'll wayne lot more tournaments and forget the woe caused by bridges, rocks and complaints about a tree. love to winnie and keep hitting them, all the best, as ever, d.d.e ." and there's $10. the bet was what? >> he bet me i'd win the p.g.a. championship. and i didn't. >> rose: that's a hell of a life. >> it was full. >> there's gary player who is short next to the bunker. that's an eight-iron he's going to chip with. this is his third shot on the par 4. gives it plenty, goes towards the hole and right by!

>> rose: gary player is a legendary golfer who won nine grand slam events. he's one of five people to have one each major at least one time. it's known as a career grand slam. during the 1960s and '70s his duals with jack nicklaus and arnold palmer elevated golf's stature around the world and next year's masters, the big three, will reunite as honorary starters at augusta national for the masters. i'm pleased to have gary player at this table for the first time and thank god for that. welcome. >> rose: thank you very much, charlie. an honor to be here. 7,000 people, all heroes of mine have sat at this table. you've done a great job! >> rose: who would have believed. let me take you way back to johannberg. how did you learn to play this game? >> well, golf, we have some of the best golf courses in the world, probably the best climate in the world. a lot of good junior programs. my father played golf. very poor man but insisted that i play golf, thank goodness, because i was playing all other sports at school.

starting playing when i was 14 14, which is late. i turned pro at 17 to his tkpweus gust. he wanted me to go on and get degrees and i said "well, traveling around the world will be a degree that is so important and i'm going to be a world champion because i'm going to outpractice them all." >> rose: is that what you said? >> i'm going to outhit them. and this hand has outlived more balls. if f vj singh lives as long as i do he might hit as many or maybe more. >> rose: is that the secret? >> i think work ethic is something the world needs more now than ever before to get through to young people there's no -- this non-entitlement that people think they're entitled to. so i think a work ethic and a passion and a love and a desire is really the secret. and energy. and energy. >> rose: and if you have all those, it's not work. >> well, that's right. but you have to have energy. i think energy is a special gift given to people. or loaned. i think everyone is loaned. nothing is permanent, as you know. >> rose: do you think you had a gift or -- that enabled you to play the game well once you put

in all this practice? >> charlie, you know, this is frequently asked and i mean, you know, you think that i won the grand slam on the regular tour and the grand slam on the senior tour and that's probably more difficult than the grand slam on the regular tour because you have to do it after 50. how can somebody like myself, a small person, say i did it? i never do that. we all have different beliefs. i believe it's a gift that's loaned to me by the lord. i believe that. and, you know, why should he give it to me? i don't know. but it was a gift because you can't -- i can't be that good. it's just something that i really believe is loaned to you. and it can be taken away just as quickly as we've seen it throughout history. superstars, many of them, champions that couldn't play tomorrow for a while. >> rose: you knew as hard as you wanted to win and as hard as you tried to win if you didn't win you never thought that was the end of the world. >> that's right. and i believed i was going to win every time. >> rose: we have been nicklaus and palmer you thought you were going to win every time? >> i really believed that. >> rose: when you teed it up on the first tee "i'm going to

win this tournament"? >> i played nicklaus at the world match play championship and beat him 6-4 and then 5-4 the next year. head to head, 36 holes because i believed i was going to do it. nobody else did but i believed i was going to do it. >> rose: but if you believe it and visualize it it can happen. >> exactly. >> rose: he would hit the ball how much further than you off the "t"? >> 45 yards. but i could play bunker shots better than he could and i could play wedge -- >> you can play bunker shots better than anybody. >> and i can play chip shots. >> rose: somebody said you're a player that hits a shot better than -- out of a bunker better than anybody in the game. do you believe that? >> that's not for me to say. i have to look at the record book. (laughter). >> rose: how is arnold better and different than jack or you? >> everybody loved around, i loved around, jack loved around. we wanted to beat each other very badly but we had great love for each other and, you know, when i think of what arnold did for the game, it's unbelievable. and so for jack -- but he had

charisma and he had -- we had time for people. it wasn't this commercial big-money business. it was a different life. you'd stay at people's homes at a tournament. you know, i don't think anybody -- very seldom is that done today so it really -- you know, arnold has been a great -- >> rose: did you say, in fact, that this be -- this is been attributed to someone that all of us ought to give 25% of our earnings to arnie because he changed the game because of the potential endorsement ability? >> well, he did. because the game was probably on the wayne to a certain degree and here come this is charismatic man and he goes to britain and he had this -- he had a -- he had it. he had it. how do you explain "it"? you know? >> rose: you also changed the game in giving it an international dimension. >> i hope so, because i traveled more miles than any athlete, for sure. maybe more miles than any human being, i don't know. but i traveled all around the world and went into little towns and played for $25 a game

because we loved the game and we gave people pleasure. so it was a different time. i mean, there was none of this massive sums of money. we didn't play for much money. but that wasn't the criteria. we wanted to win and we had great camaraderie with people. you look at arnold when he was signing autographs, he'd stand there until everybody was gone so we had to do that as well. >> rose: fitness for you was everything. tell the story of your brother. going off to world war ii and he says to his younger brother what? >> well, he's standing there, he's 17 years of age going to world war ii to fight alongside the americans and the british and the australians and the allies at that time. and he said to me "you want to be a professional sportsman?" and he bought me a set of weights. he said "promise me you'll use these, you'll exercise to the day you die." and i'm 76 and i've exercised. i've adhered to his promise and it's the greatest gift. he came back and became one of the world's leading

conservationists, saved the rhino from becoming extinct and got his doctorate and thank goodness i did because of my stature when i think of the fitness, how it helped me traveling all these miles, traveling with time changes is not easy, as you know, you very well know. so the fitness is being -- and my great dream is for young ople to know this. because i started doing weights long before these other guys thought about it. frank and i used to do it. and i'd love to be able to know -- people say well that man introduced weight training and exercise and diet into the sport of golf. >> rose: so what do you shoot today? >> oh, i shoot anything between 70 and 74. >> rose: so you can still shoot your age. >> i break my age. unless it's a very windy day i break almost every time. >> rose: 70 to 76. what's different between your swing today and your swing winning the grand slams? >> strength. strength. >> rose: obviously club head speed, you mean?

>> club head speed which comes from strength. so i would have hit the ball at least 50 yards further. >> rose: does that mean therefore that the strongest -- physically strongest players are often generally the best players? >> no. no. not necessarily. but in my case i needed that 50 yards. >> rose: what was the moment that you wish you could most replay? >> replay? >> rose: yes, replay. >> the masters, i won the masters in 1961 and 1962 i was two shot ahead of arnold palm we are three holes to go and i put the shot in there at 16 about 12 foot from the hole and he missed the green to the right. now, anybody who knows the green to the right knows you can't get it out in two because you have to hit it way out to the right, it comes down the hill, gathers speed and i said to my caddy "we've got him." and it came down the hill, hit the fairway and right in the hole. the golfing gods decided that moment but we got in by one shot, hooked it intoiz eisenhower's tree, took a five-iron, knocked it on the

green. hole get. then i had an 18 hole playoff. i came back with a friend of mine i was 33, he was 36. so he had a bad shot at ten to the right and his put came back in 31 and won. so that was -- but the year before i finished -- he finished in the double doggie on the last hole. it all evens out in the long run. this business about he's an unlucky or lucky player. i've heard people say all these great shots you see at the last few holes. you know, they say it's luck. i remember playing with nicklaus in the british open and we were going head to head and i beat him in the last round. i hit a three-wood that far from the hole on a par 5 and people said "that's a lucky shot." well, the harder you practice the luckier you get. >> rose: (laughs) that's true. about everything. so wearing black, where did that come from? >> well, my father, who was a miner and a very poor man said "one thing you have to do is have a brand." and my son runs my business. "you've got to have a brand."

>> rose: man in black. >> and i saw jack paladin "have gun will travel." and he had the black and silver holster and i said "i'm from black africa i'm going to wear black!" so i became known as the black knight. and people t people i met, elvis presley, president of the united states. >> rose: you met presley? >> yes, in 19 -- i'm going to tell you this. in 1961 i go on one of the morning shows and i say ♪ one for the money, two for the show, three get ready no go, pat, go ♪ you can do anything but don't step on my but suede shoes ♪ and he saw that and said "i want to meet that guy. so i'm in los angeles and a hale waltz takes me over to meet him. >> rose: the film producer? >> yes, and elvis puts his jacket on, well mannered "how do you do, sir." he had a grip like this, looked like a cow giving birth to a role of barbed wire. he said "what's important, tkpwaeurly. " i said, elvis, learn to use the hips, wind up and unwind.

he says the hips? he says, buddy, you're talking to the right man. man, the hips -- (laughter). >> rose: is that righting? >> yeah, i loved elvis! >> is this on film, anywhere? >> i don't think so because it was just done spontaneously. but man i loved that man and you think what his music did and live today, my caught ther from south africa sends me on the ipad the other day elvis singing "blue suede shoes." young, thin, handsome man. he was something, wasn't he? >> rose: you've written one book that i know about called "don't choke." what's the lesson to not choke? >> that pressure is self-fore bearing and you have to make comparisons and i think of the tough times i had with my mother dying and my father in the gold mine and my brother at war and coming home to a dark house and there was a black gentleman there called john, made me a bit of food occasionally and i'd had to travel to school and travel back. i went to a great school, you had to stand up when the teacher

came in the class. you had to take your hat off. great sporting facility. so it was tough. >> rose: but that's what taught you not to choke? >> i think so. >> rose: you were tougher because you knew how to handled a versety? >> i think so. i always made a comparison "is this as tough as what you had as a kid?" no. everything's -- it's -- everything's in the mind, isn't it? >> rose: do you believe you got the credit you deserve for the game you played because you played at the same time of two people who had so much attention given to them, arnie and jack? >> i do believe so because remember i was an international player and they look at the records in golf and they -- they've put in the perspective and they let's look at the records and i was given having lon jeff any the sport i was given a lot of credit. i have no beefs about that and i don't blame the american people for putting arnold and jack before me. that's understandable. and i accept that.

i mean, that's something that -- >> rose: apart from them, do you think you've gotten full credit for what you achieved on the course? >> i this think so, yes. because the record book can't lie. the record book doesn't tell lies and if you look at the number of majors in the years, it doesn't tell a lie. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

08/23/13 08/23/13 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] >> from pacifica, this is democracy now! say that asr to difficult as the problem as, this is something that is going to require america's attention, hopefully the entire communities -- international community's attention. >> an alleged chemical attack killed over 100 people. we will speak with azadeh zohrabi